Sorry for the long post, but this is a true story so I wanted to go into full detail.
Okay I am 21 now and this story begins when I was 15 years old and just an innocent high school girl who had never even kissed a boy. I had a crush on a guy in my grade named Jeff for almost a year but I didn't know if he felt the same way about me and I wasn't ready to find out. Today me and Jeff are together and he doesn't know about this story.
During this time another guy (Mark) who was a year older than me asked me to go to prom with him. This guy was a player and had a big ego which turned me off so I turned him down. That didn't stop him though as he continued calling and texting me and to be honest I didn't mind the attention. He wasn't the first guy to like me but he was definitely the hottest and most popular and I thought maybe if Jeff noticed that he would get jealous and ask me out. I had a feeling Jeff felt the same way about me so I made sure I kept Mark as just a friend despite him wanting more. Mark and Jeff knew each other, but since they weren't in the same grade or friend circle, they didn't talk.
Fast forward a couple months and I decided to just give it a shot and ask Jeff out. I would have regretted it if I didn't and it worked out well because he said he liked me too and we hit it off immediately. I was his first girlfriend too and he was also a virgin who had never been with a girl. Everything was going great with me and Jeff, but Mark wasn't happy. He heard I had a boyfriend but didn't know who and when I told him about Jeff all he did was laugh. I didn't know how to react but since we were kinda friends I just told him to "stop it" and awkwardly laughed with him. Mark was never shy with his words but I was very non confrontational so he knew how to make me uncomfortable.
Mark knew I was a virgin and he also knew I had never been with another guy so I think that was a big reason he was so into me. One night when I was going to bed he called me and talked about how hot I was and how I could do better than Jeff. I know he just wanted to get with me but he somehow convinced me to stay on the phone with him until the late hours of the night. I had already texted Jeff goodnight and Mark knew that so he took advantage of me being alone and not having anyone to talk to. He did this a few more times and one night he called me while I was studying and asked me to come out with him to grab a midnight snack. We were taking a class together and he was studying as well and I needed his notes so I agreed thinking it would be a good way to take a break. My boyfriend Jeff was already sleeping and although he knew of Mark and his intentions he didn't know I was still talking to him on a regular basis.
When Mark arrived I got in his truck and before I could say anything he started flirting with me. I didn't mind though as he always did this and he wasn't getting anywhere with me, atleast thats what I thought…
After driving for about five minutes I realize that were pulling up to Mark's house, he lives right up the street from Jeff so I recognized the neighborhood right away. Without saying anything he pulls into his driveway and tells me he forgot the notes inside. As he got out of his truck for some reason that I still don't know to this day, I opened my door as well and followed him. He didn't say anything but I could see him being surprised as well. I would have stopped right there but I didn't want him to see that I was uncomfortable. I just followed him in and he led me to his room. I was nervous now and I think he saw it. I had never been in a situation like this with another guy and I had only kissed my boyfriend up until this point. Now I was in the room of this player in the middle of the night and not only was this guy hot, he thought I was hot and wasn't afraid to tell me.
He told me to have a seat, knowing full well that the only place to sit in the room was the bed. I sat down and he asked me what Jeff would say if he knew where I was. I nervously laughed and tried changing the topic when he came and sat next to me. Without saying a word he kisses me on the neck and that is where everything went wrong, or right depending on how you view it.
Although me and Jeff had been going out for about a few months, we had only seen each other during school for the most part and our relationship was moving terribly slow in the intimacy department. It didn't bother me at all though as this was my first relationship but I guess that is where a player like Mark saw he could take advantage.
I let Mark kiss my neck for a couple seconds before trying to stop him by pushing him away. When I put my hand to he chest to push him he started kissing my ear and I lost it. I don't even know how he did it, but somehow he got my hand on top of his pants and thats when I felt my another man's dick for the first time. It was so hard, and when I moved my hand away from it he looked me in the eyes and told me, no ordered me to "Feel him"
I didn't even have time to think before I realized where my hand was heading. Not only did I feel it again, but this time I grabbed it through his jeans, holding it and gently squeezing it. I was amazed, and he could tell. Mark looked at me again and asked "is it bigger than Jeffs?"
This is where I probably should have came to my senses and realized just what was happening. Instead I looked him in the eyes and answered "I don't know"
Mark didn't respond to me but I could see his ego blowing up to a whole new level. He started unbuckling his pants and I just moved my hand to get out of his way. I was mesmerized by his size and how his dick seemed to pulsate when he looked at me. He must have been about 7 inches long and although I had never seen one before, I was sure it must be above average. Once he had his pants completely off he told me to "hold him".
Mark was sitting next to me still on my left, so I reached over with my right hand and grabbed his dick. When I grabbed it he encouraged me to jerk his dick off, I knew about jerking off but I had never seen it before so I just moved my hand up and down and around his shaft, feeling it instead of beating it, probably the worst handjob one could receive. While I was doing this he kissed me and put his tongue in my mouth. Jeff and I only just started using tongue and Mark was so much better so that really turned me on. While he was kissing me he started feeling my breasts, also a first for me. It made me feel so sexy and while he was doing this he started pushing me off the bed a bit and pulling my body so it would be facing him. He eventually pushed me so I was standing in front of him, bending over and kissing him while I played with his dick.
I thought I was as far as it was going to go but Mark had other ideas. He wasn't a virgin so I should have known he would probably want more but I didn't expect what happened next. While I was kissing him he stopped and grabbed me by my head, looking into my eyes again he said "I want you to taste me".
I was not about to suck anybodys dick, let alone Mark of all people. It is something that I always thought was disgusting and I could never imagine degrading my self to put someones genitals in my mouth. The thought alone was repulsive. I told him "No".
He didn't bother pushing it and just started kissing me again, this time pulling me onto the bed with him. Now we were laying down and he has me climb on top of him. I am still fully clothed at this point in yoga pants and a t shirt while he is wearing only a shirt. I didn't know where this was going but I knew I wasn't having sex with him, I was not ready to lose my virginity, in fact I probably wasn't ready for any of this. I was just caught up in the moment.
When I was on top of him he grabbed my hips and started grinding me onto his dick. It felt amazing for me and he did this for about 5 minutes before I started to lose it. We were making out and grabbing each other all over when he told me to take off my pants. He wanted to "see how wet my panties were".
I wanted to take them off too as I had broke a sweat now and was feeling very hot and horny. When I took them off I hopped back on him and started dry humping his dick again. I did this for about 5 minutes and was bucking my hips and he knew he had me where he wanted. I came and I came hard. My pussy was so wet I could hear it and when he felt me cumming he told me "Your gonna suck me now."
I was in another world at this point and without thinking I said "okay"
While climbing off of him I could see that my pussy juices had soaked threw my panties and onto his dick and on his bed. The room probably "smelled like sex" and we hadn't even had any penetration. I was even more disgusted at the thought of sucking his dick now because it had my juices all over it. He saw the look on my face and could tell I was reluctant so he pulled me up to him again and started making out with me. While doing this he wrapped one arm around my neck, pulled my hair and took his other hand to my pussy. He didn't even wait for me to respond and just shoved two of his fingers deep inside of me. This sent a shockwave through my body and my pussy was already so wet that he just started finger fucking me without any warning. I was squirting again and he told me "Your gonna suck my dick and your gonna beg for it". I told him "Yes! Yes! Anything Mark! Please let me suck your dick, I want to taste you."
I started trying to suck him off while he had his fingers inside of me and although it was an awkward position I managed to get my mouth on him. His dick was shiny from all my juices on it and once I had him in my mouth he took his fingers out and grabbed me by my hair. "I'm going to fuck your face like this and then your going to swallow my cum" he said to me while I was sucking his dick. I told him "no" and he replied with "okay I am going to cum on your face then". I didn't want his cum in my mouth and I definitly didn't want to swallow so I reluctantly agreed to him finishing on my face.
Then he told me to "Beg for it" to which I replied "no way"
When I said that he started finger fucking me again and after about five minutes I was about to cum for the third time that night. "Where do you want my cum?" He asked while fucking my pussing with his fingers and my mouth with his dick.
"Cum on my face, please Mark." I begged
"Whos my bitch" He asked
"Me. I'm your bitch, I just want your cum, please give it to me"
"Okay drink up" he replied with a smile on his face
With that he started moaning and held my head down while he shot his load into my mouth. Not wanting to choke and having it already in my mouth I decided to swallow. I was angry but I kept sucking, and I sucked every last drop.
This was the first time I cheated on Jeff with Mark and if anyone is interested in hearing more, feedback is appreciated.
Source: reddit.com/r/gonewildstories/comments/31dgoc/how_i_cheated_on_my_bf_mf
Wow, that is a great story!!! I love how he knew how to unleash your inner slut even though you didn’t even know she was in there. haha I’m looking forward to any more stories you have, this one was great!!!!!!
i would have to leave a "poor guy jeff" here.
More please.
> Let’s hear your true sex stories (all participants 18+).
Please write more! I would love to know who got your virginity!
First time? There were more?
Ummm…so it kinda sounds like "Mark" raped you.
Can’t wait to read the next chapters. Sounds like you weren’t afraid of a good time for very long.
Everything in this story is true but this is the internet and I can see how you might not believe it. Infact my boyfriend wouldn’t believe this if I showed it to him. I will say though that I am not 21, I hid my real age because I’m weird lol.
Fake or not this is truly a intriguing story I would like finished. Please continue to write more and ignore the downvotes. Some folks are more…sensitive than others to these types of genre.
You’re*
I don’t really know how to use reddit but I guess I will reply to some of the comments in this post. It wasn’t rape, but I was probably taken advantage of. Also this is the first time I have written anything like this although I have browsed the over similar stories the past few months which made me want to write this. Googling situations that were similar to mine is what led me to this place. Sorry for any grammar errors and spelling mistakes, I honestly didn’t expect anyone to read, let alone comment so thanks for coming out, whether you enjoyed it or not :P
I think the issue issue is that you say you are 15 in this story.
Well I was 16 when the acts took place, I have seen other posts of people doing things in high school so I didn’t see a problem. I am over 18 now.
Despite the grammatical errors, it was pretty well written. Looking forward to reading what happened next.
This definitely got me hard, I would love to hear more stories about things that you’ve done. Hell even with Jeff.
I would definitely love to hear more. I am hoping Mark took your V-card and not Jeff lol. Definitely would love to hear about the first time you had sex with mark. Thanks for the great story.
Yeah these pictues *were* taken when I was 6, but since I’m 18 now they’re not child porn. *logic*
Well the legal age for consent is 16 in Canada so…
That was a fucking exciting story and it sounds to me like you had fun, so I see no problem here. If he did anything you found offensive then that would be a problem. If not then I’m just going to enjoy. Let us know what happened next, and what you like a man to do to you. Also, if you’re into taking pictures, I certainly wouldn’t mind.
Don’t mind the people here, they don’t get out of the house much.
Hey let’s come to a subreddit about sex stories and complain about them!
And the rule on this sub is 18. What’s so hard to understand about that?
Exciting story. Please write more!
very hot thx. post more please
How? Because she tried for like 2 seconds to push him away and then gave in when he kissed her ear? Ear kissing: literally rape. The only time she said "no" in the story was to specific sex acts which he then convinced her to do by giving her enough pleasure that she was horny enough to do them. Mutual pleasure: literally rape. I can appreciate that there is a fine line sometimes, but this story doesn’t cross it for me. She was naive and taken advantage of, but from what I’ve read she consented to everything.
So, you cheated on Jeff for no reason? "First time" so that means you cheated with Mark more times? Maybe you should tell Jeff and start dating Mark. I think Jeff deserves better.
Wow. I’m hard as a rock right now. This was an amazing story and I hope there are more. Don’t listen to all the negatives here. It’s your story and you tell it how you wish. Please write more!!
He would have trouble believing you were a total cheat. Then he would and he would dump you for someone better.
Maybe when he literally forced her to take his cum in her mouth without her consent? If that’s not assault I don’t know what is.
Ahahaha so true
Here I’m hoping your future husband will cheat on you with your best friend.
Ha, you’re a dick. A naive teenager cheating on her boyfriend is much much different than a cheating husband or wife.
So what? She should’ve just dated Mark if she wanted to do stuff with him so bad. Clearly she felt nothing for Jeff except a schoolgirl crush. Jeff deserved better.
Oh totally. My point was that leaving Jeff for Mark eliminated her security blanket. It’s not fair, I’m just explaining why she’d stay even if she doesn’t seem to care for him.
Jeff still is, it seems. >Today me and Jeff are together and he doesn’t know about this story.
Someone warn Jeff he got a hoe on his hands
I understand why she stayed with Jeff, somewhat. It just seems silly. She cheated on him so no reason at all. It wasn’t as if it was a case of dead bedroom or he was a jerk. But she started dating him and had been a pure virgin and only kissed. Then Mark finger fucks her and suddenly Jeff is meaningless. At least Jeff should’ve been told so he could leave her for someone who wouldn’t waste his time, money and effort.
Very hot story, but I do feel bad for jeff. You said this is the first time, how many times did you cheat on him
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/178/556/I_came.jpg part 2 please!
Cheating is cheating. She deserves her potential future husband banging her best friend(s).
This is /r/gonewildstories, NOT /r/gonetochurchstories.
Life isn’t black and white like that. If you seriously can’t tell the difference between the two situations I seriously question your life experiences and intelligence.
I can tell the difference. But she had zero reason. Jeff didn’t deserve her cheating on him. He wasn’t a jerk. He wasn’t bad in bed. She just wanted Mark cause he finger blasted her. Jeff loses out being her first… And her reason is just because. She deserves her husband banging her friends.
So you think that since a 16 year old in her first ever serious relationship made a mistake and cheated that as a consequence she should be cheated on 20 years down the road by her husband? Yup, you’re a moron.
lmfao Jeff lost
Don’t worry about all the people blasting you for cheating or daring to post one of your earlier stories. This is a place for hot stories, not judgements, and yours is very hot. I’d love to read follow ups.
Serious relationship? Based on what? She didn’t take it seriously with Jeff.
As a straight white male this comment is disturbing to me. "consent" in no way means ‘not saying no’ or is obtained by "giving her enough pleasure that she was horny enough to do them". There is no fine line, consent is only obtained when a person knowingly agrees to a sexual act without coercion, including the coercion of pleasure. If Mark had asked her before he touched her at all if she was comfortable with his actions and had continued to ensure at each level of escalation that she was still comfortable, with a girl who had no previous experience, that would have been consent. This story is an obvious rape narrative. The fact that OP does not take it as such attests to the awful status of sexual education for both men and women in our society. As for you, /u/kevkinrade I hope that you always ensure that you actually receive consent from the men and/or women and never use pleasure, or any other form of coercion, in order to engage in sexual acts. Also how the hell can you write: "She was naive and taken advantage of, but from what I’ve read she consented to everything." When I take advantage of someone I by definition do not obtain their consent… If I convince you to buy my shitty old car because I tell you it’s brand new, then I have not obtained your consent to buy my car. I have taken advantage of you and in legal parlance I have committed fraud.
She had already consented to a lot, then she tries pushing away and whether the guy could even tell she was doing that is pretty unclear, but then she started consenting again when he kissed her ear. Fuck all that shit about asking at every stage, that’s not how real sex goes. If she had a problem she would have flat out said so, like she said no to several of his sexual demands later,but was coerced into by his giving her pleasure first and making her receptive. That’s not rape either. The only part which could be construed as such was forcing her to drink his cum. I’m not down with that and neither was she, and it could be classed as a sexual assault. There again he’s being dominant and she’s being submissive, it’s hard to point to one act in a string of sub-dom interactions and say that one was beyond the pail. I don’t think your interpretation of consent is correct at all in the last paragraph, and your analogy is also off base. This isn’t someone lying about an old car being new. It’s more like a car salesman selling to someone who’s unsure, but who has nevertheless made their way to the sales room (no one forced her into Mark’s room). Salesmen can’t be prosecuted for taking advantage of customers’ naivety. They don’t force them to do anything, they simply sell them something by enhancing the positives and downplaying the negatives. Not illegal since all clauses are mentioned in a bill of sale. It’s similar with this; Mark gave her pleasure and made her horny enough to forget her feelings for the other guy. She ultimately knows what’s going on but has allowed herself to be manipulated with pleasure. She wanted it. There’s a whole world of difference between manipulation via pleasure and seduction, and forced rape. After all, whenever we convince someone to go to bed with us we’re changing their initial thoughts, unless you happen to be so irresistible that people literally tear their clothes off for you. It’s all manipulation on some level.
Yeah I actually agree that that part crosses the line. But like I said in another comment, it’s just one action in a whole string of dominant/submissive sexual interactions. It’s difficult to pick out one act of nonconsent as "too far" when there’s a sexual power thing going on that both parties are consenting to.
I mean I think it’s pretty easy to look at the whole thing taken together and say that, morally speaking, the whole encounter was out of line. The problem is that when someone says "rape" people think of forcible intercourse. Yet in real life sexual assault often isn’t that. Is this on the same level as a forcible rape? Of course not. But I do think OP was coerced into some things and forced into at least the last thing. Probably not the kind of thing she could have pressed charges about, but still not cool. I hope the people reading the story, and OP herself, realize that it’s not ok to treat a sexual partner this way. Of course if she had agreed beforehand to a dominant/submissive sort of relationship then that would be different. But this isn’t the sort of thing you should do to someone without talking about it beforehand. It tells me that the man didn’t care about respecting OP’s wishes. Maybe this taste of power leads him later to want to commit worse acts. That’s why for me even a single act of nonconsent is too much. Is it enough to throw the guy in jail? No I don’t think that’s warranted. But should we just say it’s ok? No we shouldn’t.
I liked it. Thanks for sharing. Please do share more.
> Fuck all that shit about asking at every stage, that’s not how real sex goes. If she had a problem she would have flat out said so, like she said no to several of his sexual demands later,but was **coerced** into by his giving her pleasure first and making her receptive. lol >There’s ~~a whole world of~~ **no** difference between manipulation via pleasure and seduction, and ~~forced~~ rape. ftfy >It’s all manipulation on some level. Great attitude towards other people brother! Look no one is saying you can’t blow your load to an underage rape narrative. Just have the human decency to admit what it is, feel bad about it afterwards and make sure you never do anything like that in real life. We didn’t used to be better than coercing people, mentally or physically, into sex, but we are (I hope) now. Just like we’re better than racism, sexism, killing babies, etc.
Pretty immature line of arguing. I’m laying down an interpretive argument and you’re spouting off about masturbation and attempting to invalidate entire lines of reasoning with that bastion of philosophical quotations, "lol". Congratulations. FWIW I didn’t even whack it to this, the writing was poor and the story flawed. I’m just tired of people calling rape when it’s not. And you haven’t changed my mind, no matter how hyperbolic your false equivalences become (dead babies, classy).
Well actually we’re having an ethical argument that comes down to the definition of "rape" and "consent", no interpretation involved. There’s an intuitive moral framework hiding behind my definition of consent as always requiring positive confirmation roughly along the lines of "treat other people likes human beings always and never as means to an end, yours or otherwise". This is Kantian in spirit but I’m adopting it without providing a moral framework since I think practical moral discussions don’t need meta-ethics. I suspect you share the same moral framework and so I have elucidated my definition of "rape" and "consent" to demonstrate that they fail this morality, and that you probably wouldn’t actually agree with the position you are defending if it didn’t come from a reactionary perspective. Something like "all this talk about rape makes me feel like I can’t even have sex with a girl without potentially raping her." (answer: you can just so long as you always obtain clear consent) There’s no real way to argue this point without meta-ethics, so all I can do is point out that the way you use your language (i.e. using worlds like "coerced", "taken advantage of", etc.) is probably in conflict with the moral framework that, on reflection, you would realize you already have…since I doubt you think it’s ok to use people as ends, i.e. as objects. If you don’t see this I can’t really do more than say "but look consent (real, not non-verbal) and coercion are obviously mutually exclusive." Just think about what those words mean. Here’s some help (these both come from the top result on google: http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/victims-victimes/def.html Consent: Subsection 273.1(1) defines consent as the **voluntary agreement** of the complainant to engage in the sexual activity in question. Conduct short of a voluntary agreement to engage in sexual activity does not constitute consent as a matter of law. http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/coercion Coercion: The intimidation of a victim to compel the individual to do some act against his or her will by the use of **psychological pressure**, physical force, or threats. I have bolded the relevant parts. The above should show you why your argument would never stand up in court. But really morality isn’t legality and it should be obvious to anyone with a similar moral framework to mine that consent requires voluntary agreement, that is not obtained by psychological pressure produced through social expectations of reciprocation and pleasure. If you don’t share a similar moral framework, i.e. if you think it is ok to use people as ends, then again. I have no real argument for you in the context of a redit post. But I can tell you that I think you’re a bad person, just like I would be pressed to come up with an reddit argument for why not to kill babies, other than "but human life is valuable" and that is just saying "people shouldn’t be used as means to ends". So all I really have to say to such a person is…well… have some human decency!
All of those points you think are so bullet proof are entirely predicated upon a subjective interpretation of the situation. You interpret every single sexual liaison within a very strict, ultra-defined framework, whilst I think that they’re very complex interactions that depend entirely upon the people involved and the prevailing mood of the entire sexual liaison as compared a specific reaction to one specific action. To clarify, you have to view the non-consensual claim for one sexual action within the context of the entire act. This is where it gets subjective, because whilst I agree that him making her drink his cum could be construed as sexual assault, within the context of the entire liaison it becomes less clearly defined. For me there’s a very obvious undercurrent of sexual excitement on behalf of the girl in this story which is driven by the guy being dominant and controlling her actions. Furthermore, I don’t think this has to be specifically mentioned by either party in order for it to be valid. Maybe that makes me an ultra creepy rapey person to you, but I happen to think I can tell the difference between this type of story and the ones where a girl has actually been abused. I also place importance upon the girl’s actual perspective, which is something people like you seem to disregard, as if they’re too ditzy to realise that their little minds have been warped. That’s a whole other can of worms and possibly rather sexist of you, but in any case OP has categorically stated that this was not rape, and I think that’s important. Going back to this from your previous comment: >There’s ~~a whole world of~~ **no** difference between manipulation via pleasure and seduction, and ~~forced~~ rape I just think that’s complete nonsense. Where do you draw the line with that? If I chat up a girl in a bar who initially finds me unattractive but I change her mind with my sparkling wit and philosophical musings upon the nature of sexual assault (okay just the sparkling wit), does that make me a rapist because I seduced her? If I really want a blowjob so I go down on a girl for half an hour beforehand to make it more likely does that mean I’m a manipulative sex offender? Because that’s kind of what you’re saying. Forgive me if I utterly disregard that notion.
I’m just going to go section by section. >To clarify, you have to view the non-consensual claim for one sexual action within the context of the entire act. This is where it gets subjective That’s not what subjective means http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subjective http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjectivity The word you want is "context dependent". An individual act must be considered in the context of the whole sexual liaison. This is why I have not appealed to the final act of making her swallow his cum in establishing that he raped her. Rather I am concerned with the fact that nowhere *in the act taken as a whole* was consent obtained. >For me there’s a very obvious undercurrent of sexual excitement on behalf of the girl in this story which is driven by the guy being dominant and controlling her actions. As in the above posts. One cannot obtain non-verbal consent through pleasure. This is called coercion. Consent would have had to be established prior to the sexual acts. >Furthermore, I don’t think this has to be specifically mentioned by either party in order for it to be valid. First I want to say: yes it absolutely does. Otherwise it is not "voluntary agreement" as per the legal definition I quoted above. Second, perhaps there are cases where consent doesn’t need to be explicit, but in these cases there must be compelling reason to believe that the individual who consented has made a prior decision to do so without verbalizing it. Something like in marriage or a steady relationship (though rape can and does happen in marriage and relationships). However, as OP clearly expressed reservations *before the act* and therefore had not given consent before the act. >I also place importance upon the girl’s actual perspective, which is something people like you seem to disregard, as if they’re too ditzy to realise that their little minds have been warped. That’s a whole other can of worms and possibly rather sexist of you, but in any case Accusing me of sexism is ad hominem. Also rape is a problem for men and women. I am not saying she is unable to give consent because she is "ditzy" but that she in fact *did not* give consent. But beyond that, rape is not a female problem and I have not appealed at any point to the fact that OP is female. >OP has categorically stated that this was not rape, and I think that’s important. First it is irrelevant whether or not OP believes it was rape because rape is legally not personally defined. Many people who have been raped, *especially men*, are unwilling or unable to appreciate that they have been raped. Much like many victims of domestic violence do not believe they are being abused. http://www.svfreenyc.org/survivors_factsheet_38.html http://www.uab.edu/police/programs-and-services/victim-awareness-assistance-program/date-rape >The reluctance of women to label forced intercourse as rape is evident in the research finding that only 43% of victims experience abuse meeting the legal definition of rape actually acknowledge the experience as rape. Anecdotal: http://mic.com/articles/100484/12-heartbreaking-confessions-prove-far-too-many-women-don-t-realize-they-were-raped >I just think that’s complete nonsense. Where do you draw the line with that? In my last comment I wrote: "I suspect you share the same moral framework and so I have elucidated my definition of "rape" and "consent" to demonstrate that they fail this morality, and that you probably wouldn’t actually agree with the position you are defending if it didn’t come from a reactionary perspective. Something like ‘all this talk about rape makes me feel like I can’t even have sex with a girl without potentially raping her.’" This is exactly what you express here, but these worries **are not** reasons to refuse to acknowledge that sex without clear non-coerced consent is rape. I believe very much you have good intentions and a solid moral framework and that all your issues with admitting this is rape stem from the *person reactionary position* that you stated above. >If I chat up a girl in a bar who initially finds me unattractive but I change her mind with my sparkling wit and philosophical musings upon the nature of sexual assault (okay just the sparkling wit), does that make me a rapist because I seduced her? If I really want a blowjob so I go down on a girl for half an hour beforehand to make it more likely does that mean I’m a manipulative sex offender? Your hypotheticals are also interesting since they entirely miss the point and demonstrate what you are worried about. Good news, neither of those situations is rape **if you obtain clear verbal consent without coercion before any and all sexual acts**. If a girl says yes to having sex with you because you talked her up–not rape! If a girl agrees to trade oral sex for oral sex–not rape! Just always remember to obtain–I can’t say it enough–**clear verbal consent without coercion before any and all sexual acts**
There was no real need for you to reply since you’ve merely covered the same ground in excruciatingly tedious detail. Yes, you think every sexual encounter should have a verbal contract, yes you think that a legal definition is the be all and end all. We disagree, that’s pretty much it. Oh, but stating that a particular viewpoint may be sexist isn’t ad hominem. Ad hominem is an attack upon the person rather than the argument. I clearly stated that your viewpoint is what makes you sexist. Just a little definition refresher for you there. Enjoy your evening.